You may be aghast at this title. Every human being has BEEN both a victim and an abuser. Every human being has the victim and the abuser asteroids in his chart. These are archetypes, in Jungian fashion.In reality, most people fall on one or the other side of the spectrum. In an abusive relationship, the man will usually be the abuser and the woman the victim.Of course, this is a generality. In one’s natal chart, one can see if one was victimized. One needs to look at the Child Asteroid too. Abuse is very real in life. I endeavor to bring the darkness to light. To begin with the natal. If one was victimized, one carries the mantle of the victim. One may try to talk oneself out of it.One may go to therapy and self help groups.One will, most likely.However, the change will be superficial in most cases. Observe, the women who marry the same man over and over in different guises. One’s chart is imprinted on one in cellular ways. God made the person. God gave him a chart with which to navigate life. That is how I see it. As such, one’s chart is as deep as breathing. God KNOWS what you are going through. The Bible says that God knows every hair on our heads. Why do people suffer? I think God wants each man to come to Him. *I* think suffering is God’s drawing you to Himself. You know I lost a son so I know about pain. God says that pain is to be used to comfort others. When I tell clients these things, they know they can rest with me.
Back to Nessus and Dejanira, the abuser and victim asteroids respectively. One can see if one will be more of an abuser or a victim by the natal chart. One will fall on one side or the other . If you were born with more of the victim asteroids dominating, you will find an abuser, most likely. If you were born with the abuser asteroids dominating, you will find a victim, most likely. Lest I get a bushel of tomatoes thrown at me, I am simplifying matters. However,if you look around you will see this repeated in the lives of people you know and famous people in the news. Each person would be helped by looking to his natal chart as a way to forestall abuse or to forestall being an abuser.Once we analyze our natal chart, we are in a position to be armed with self knowledge. This is the best prevention against drawing harmful situations to oneself. I talk about these things openly with that thought in mind. There are some people who do not have Nessus or Dejanira dominant in the natal chart. These people were not abused, in my experience of doing charts. However, they can find themselves abused or victimized if someone else hits their Nessus or Dejanira in synastry. You will know if you are in a Nessus/Dejanira relationship by the otherworldly intensity. I do not mean this in a good way. The intensity of a Nessus/Dejanira relationship feels as if you will die if you don’t get the person. Think of a fatal attraction feeling. This is what I am describing. So for those people fortunate enough not to be abused as children, they may still face Nessus and Dejanira from others. When looking at Nessus and Dejanira, one needs to look beyond romantic relationships to those of step father/daughter, babysitter/baby, mother/son, father/daughter. employee/employer etc. You get the point. Nessus and Dejanira should be examined in all of synastry to forestall problems.
Nice blog AmiAnn…it has sparked a question I have about my own life situation. I have been involved in an emotionally fraught friendship with this guy for the past year and a half. His Nessus is conjunct my ascendant and my Dejanira is conjunct his ascendant. Does this mean I am undoubtedly destined to be abused by him in our friendship? Thus far I could see it leaning that way but is there any way to change this or is this a just destined/karmic thing? TIA for any advice
Thanks for your kind words SV. Well, there are two answers to your question.If you not overcome the chart with God, then the chart will play out, most likely. His Nessus conj YOUR ASC will may him the likely abuser. Your Deja conj His ASC. You will be the victim. In both of these, you are the victim lol. Is there a great attraction between you that feels really obsessive? This is usually the case for Nessus/Dejanira relationships. xx
Thanks for the prompt reply AmiAnn; I have been reading through your archives and I’m even more impressed than earlier…Yes indeed, I am definitely obsessed with him but am not sure what/how he feels for me now. At one point we were def both attracted to each other but now things are VERY murky. I even started dating someone else to get my mind off of him and the somewhat tortuous situation but I am still pretty much all about him….I find myself praying to God on a daily basis from freedom from all the emotional torture because it’s actually quite unhealthy the way it is but alas I just feel STUCK :-(. Hopefully in time things will be different. Anyways thanks again for the comment, you rock!
Thanks SV Your comment warmed my heart. I bet you have a Nessus/ Dejanira relationship. Look at those articles. Put the names in the Search Engine and read all that I have.I bet you anything this is what you have.I bet you have moon/Pluto too which is THE most intense aspect going. I have articles on this. I wish I had simple words to make it easier. I don’t but I do understand how it feels Darling. xx
Ami Ann, yes I think searching old articles you did on Nessus and Deja has certainly confirmed that is the type of situation I’m involved in. I really wanted to reply to inform you that you were SPOT ON about the moon/Pluto thing (your accuracy astonishes me since I gave you very little to work with) …we have a grand trine in synastry of both our moons and his Pluto. I thought that grand trines were supposed to be good things :-\. Then again the moon is also opposite Pluto in the composite so maybe that’s why there is so much emotional turmoil (at least for me). Thanks again for taking the time to comment esp since my comments are on such an old article. God Bless!!!
SV is is my joy and pleasure when I see comments on my articles–any of them.It makes me feel as if I am making a contribution to others. No one needs to use my reading services for me to interact and enjoy it immensely! Yes, I know Moon/Pluto because I lived it lol
I wonder if I have this with someone I know…our association is chiefly defined by the fact that her Chiron is conjunct my NN (owwwwwww)…but I wonder about the Nessus/Dejanira connection, as her Chiron is also conjunct my Nessus, and my Venus is sesquiquadrate her Dejanira. Natally she has Nessus trine both NN and Uranus, and Dejanira square Sedna, NN and Pluto. Whew! Wonder what that means?? 🙂
Excellent blog by the way!!!!
Thank you for your kind words! Well, the single weirdest friendship I ever had was when my Nessus conjuncted her Chiron. Her Chiron conj your NN means she will bring you pain. The Nessus/ Chiron in synastry may play out like this. Your relationship could have strange ups and downs: getting close, fighting and getting close. Then, it may break apart in a totally strange and weird way. Once, it breaks apart, you may never be able to get it back.Please, keep me updated, as I am very interested!
Yes, she has brought me tons of pain. More acute than anything I have ever felt with or for anyone else before. I have to interact with her professionally, and sometimes I would rather knife myself in the gut. Because that is what it feels like! Any educated guesses on what the aspects I mentioned in her birth chart represent? Do they suggest she is an abuser by nature?
Well, if you want me to look at her natal aspects, list them with orbs. Orbs are key when you are dealing with asteroids. My guess is that it is the Chiron/Nessus aspect you share. This is some kind of nuclear weirdo lol
As I said, I had it and I can’t tell you the strange twists and turns of this relationship until it ended with the person seeming to vanish.
Nessus and Chiron should be illegal to touch.
Ok, I think this is what you mean?
Synastry grid
Well, if you want me to look at her natal aspects, list them with orbs. Orbs are key when you are dealing with asteroids. My guess is that it is the Chiron/Nessus aspect you share. This is some kind of nuclear weirdo lol
As I said, I had it and I can’t tell you the strange twists and turns of this relationship until it ended with the person seeming to vanish.
Nessus and Chiron should be illegal to touch.
Oops, forgot this! 🙂
Her natal aspects
Note – I do not have her birth time…I never got the courage to ask her, and now things between us are kaput. 🙁 So ignore the AC, DC, etc.) I look forward to what you see about her/us. May it bring more healing to all involved. 🙂
Sweetie
I can’t look at charts, in this setting. It would not be fair to do it for one person and not the next. I answer general questions here and some specifics, but am limited to that. I do offer chart readings, but I do need to charge. Each chart takes me about a week, as I go to great depth. xx
Hello AmiAnn, have just found your blog and feel that this Dejanira aspect may explain a very intense relationship I’ve had for 14 years now. My Dejanira (3:23 Aquarius, 5th house) conjuncts his Moon (3:58 Aquarius, 6th house ). And his Dejanira (25:12 Pisces, 8th house) conjuncts my Sun (25:07 Pisces, 7th house). He is Virgo Rising, Sun Cancer 18:53 (July 11, 1949 at 9:30 am) and I am Virgo Rising, Moon Pisces 13:38 (March 15, 1961).
We were both married when we met and very proper though felt in love at first sight and irresistibly drawn. I divorced 2 years later. We have had an obsessive relationship, feel deeply in love and magical together, however he has not been able to leave his wife to date despite claiming they are arms length, merely cordial and have been for years. I have gone years at a time refusing to be in contact but cannot stay away from him. I do not know if this aspect means heartbreak in the long term; can you comment on that?
Thank you, maa
Oh dear
These Nessus and Deja relationships seem super, super obsessive, yet super, super passionate. In my experience, they don’t work out well, though. I hate to say this. they are too, too much. They are so intense, so passionate that they seem to burn themselves up and leave wreckage and ashes. I am sorry to say this. Please come and join my Forum where we can discuss this more( and anything else you want) It is free of charge. Hope to see you there 😀
I wonder if I have this also with someone I know. His Lucifer on my Asc 1 deg, my dejanira on his Asc 0 deg. His moon trine my Pluto 4 deg. His moon on my SN 0 deg. My Venus on his MC 1 deg. DW Moon trine Venus 3/4 deg. His sun on his 4th house and 4th house stellium has affinity with my Cancer Sun.All of our angles are conjunct my ASC/his IC 2 deg, IC/DSC 2 deg, DSC/MC 0 deg, MC/ASC. I read that Conjunction of all four Angles are almost always a good thing for a couple, so I’m not sure with my dejanira on his Asc, Will I be abused by him? And if it so, Shall I just run or still try?
That is a lot to digest. Do you want to come and put the chart up? xx
Ok, since you are blocked, let me see what I can do. I would not want a person’s Lucifer on my ASC because that person would put his spiritual pride on me. Dejanira on the ASC, he person would be victimized by the ASC person. Venus on his MC, you would bring him love and beauty and it would shine forth to others in the greater society. I will do the rest when I see the actual chart
I would love to but I guess not now, can’t go to forum, blocked by org, Thanks ^^
Blocked by what?
By my org because I’m at work…shhhhh ^^
Thanks Ami! I guess it’s okay abt his lucifer bec we’re both Catholic but I do not want to be victimized by anyone so idk. My Venus is in Gemini so I can run from this. And to correct my previous post… we’re not a couple.
Lucifer is NOT evil. It is pride. It is spiritual pride and not wanting to bend one’s knee to God
Whcih person is the ASC and which is the Deja? The ASC person will victimize the Deja person imo
yet** x
I’m the Deja, he is the Asc, he has Virgo rising.
Ok. He will abuse you BUT you have to remember that a chart has hundreds of aspects, so one must look at the whole! xx
Oh I guess I’ll return the favor, my Nessus sextile his Asc 1 deg.
The sextile is positive though and would have a better use of an abusive asteroid like Nessus than a conjunction.
Thanks Ami, I guess I need to have a reading done.
Well, you can purchase a reading with me, if you want. It takes me almost a week and it is super intense, but if you just want to put your chart up in my Forum, there is no charge.
I’m more promintne Nessus in ym natal chart than he is though.
You have to remember that everyone has a Nessus and everyone has everything. How prominent it is is the key. However, every person can make choices, as to how his chart will play out.
Sorry typos* but I never abuse people. I guess it depends also on someone’s spirituality and morality. And you ‘re right, I think he already did abuse me in a way. I just don’t want the same thing to happen again.
Yes, one chooses one’s actions.
Thanks again, This is an eye opener for me. I’d just begun learning about Astrology recently and I’m so surprised there are so many bracnhes to consider and there’s a lot of different systems like Tropical, sidereal, Magi etc. It’s a lot of fun…I’d love to post the chart on the forum or purchase a reading someday, within a year at least.
You are so welcome, Jane. I love to teach and have people find my website useful!
I don’t know how to post a chart from astro, I’m new at this. Will post once I figured it out 🙂
I will put up an article for you to show you how!
Thanks Ami!!
<3 You are very welcome!
Hey ! I know one guys who’s Dejanira is conjunct my ascendant in Aries ( 1 orb) and I’m falling in love with him ,our Nessus’ are conjunct and I have Dejanira conjunct Sun and Moon in Virgo and also I have Nessus in 7th house ? i’m kind of scared , if you ask me about any histroy of abuse in my childhood it all comes from my father , I have been abused by him in my childhood , will I be abused again? thank you !!!!
You should really come and put your chart up in my personal readings forum. You could put up your boyfriends, too and the synastry( a comparison of the two) I would need to see the charts before I venture an answer, Sweetie.
Thank you so much , I just posted it , The thread name is , Nessus in 7th house for amiann !
Thank you so much , I just posted it on the forum !
Me and my “friend” have a nessus(me) square dejanira(him) at 0 degrees. My nessus squares his nessus at 1 degree. His nessus trines my venus and his nessus and dejanira squares my ascendant. I’m confused as who the victim and whose the abuser.
Hmm That is a lot. I would like to look at the whole chart to get a better sense of it. You are welcome to put it up in my Personal Readings Forum!
Hello Ami,
I love astrology because is helping me a lot to look for answers and because I am just learning, sometimes I get frustrated with making the whole picture with all those aspects so I’m so glad I discovered your site and I find it very helpful 🙂
I just learned how important role play asteroids in synastry and I have few questions.
What would it mean in synastry if
men’s ascendant conj. Nessus is in conj. with woman’s sun-mercury conj. and squaring her Jupiter-saturn conj.
his mars is conj. her mars and his mars is opposite her dejanira
his moon is square his and her mars
his dejanira square her sun-mercury conj.
she has psyche conj. venus. conj. Nessus square pluto-juno conj. in her natal and
her venus, psyche and Nessus is square his chiron and opposite his mercury
he and she have venus square pluto in natal
I don’t know her time of birth so there may be or not be conjunction between their moons
he has his Saturn on her north node
she has Saturn conj his IC
she has her chiron on his south node and Lilith on his north node in scorpio in his 5 house
I read that Lilith in synastry can brake someone’s marriage if she touches something important in men’s chart. All aspects I mentioned above are between my ex husband ( we are going through divorce right now) and the woman he left me for. He broke my heart without blink of the eye after 10 years of marriage and he is even ready to move to different country because of this woman and leave his son behind.
He has asc conj. Nessus in natal but he is not abusive or aggressive at least not on outside. He is very much passive aggressive with his mars in Gemini in 12 house and I think he is very resentful person. He has moon in picses so I know he get hurt easily.
His chiron is exactly conj. my venus
his MC is conj my IC, sun and south node
My MC and north node conj. his IC
my Uranus is conj. his north node
my Nessus is square his IC and MC
his Nessus is square my MC, IC and my north node
his Nessus is trine my dejanira
he has his north node conj. our son’s south node
He has pluto transiting over his venus in capricorn in 7house over and over again. I read somewhere that transiting pluto conj venus can bring fated attractions and relationships.
I feel there is lot of karma going on in all those synastries.
Please Ami what do you think of all those aspects.
Thank you.
Eva
Hello Eva dear
It would be better if you put up your chart in my Personal Readings Forum.
Please can you comment on the following in Synastry.
WITH CHIRON in PISCES
Both persons have their Chirons and Dejaniras in the same sign of Pisces at the following degrees. His chiron 12, Her Dej 13, His Dej 21, Her Chiron 29.
This mix also means his Chiron-Dejanira midpoint conjuncting her Dejanira by 3 degrees. And her Chiron-Dejanira midpoint conjuncting his Dejanira by 1 degree.
WITH KARMIC AXES
His Nessus is on her south node (3) and His Dejanira on her anti-vertex (2). Her Nessus trines his North node (3)
WITH CHILD
Her Nessus is on his Child (2) both of which are on their composite anti vertex (1-2)
NES-DEJ. MIDPOINT WITH AC-DC ANGLES in ARIES
Finally the bigger double whammy happening in Aries. His Nessus-Dejanira midpoint is conjunct her Nessus-Dejanira midpoint by 3 degrees. This midpoint conjunction is sandwiched between her AC-his DC conjunction of 8 degree orb. (His DC 21, His MP 22, Her MP, 25, Her AC 29)
WITH OWN LUMINARIES
Interesting to note that her Dej. trines own moon (3) and his Dej. trines own sun (4). Her moon and His sun are conjunct in synastry. His Nessus opposite own Sun (2), while her Nessus square own sun (2)
This couple has an incredibly high number of soul mate synastry aspects including Eros-Psyche conjunction double whammy.
What could this Nes-Dej. dance with Chiron, angles, karmic axes and luminaries mean? Please can you throw some light?
Lord
That is a lot of info for a comment Form. Why don’t you come and post your chart(s) on my Forum and ask the questions when I can see the visuals of the charts. Sorry, Friend!
I don’t do midpoints though, not because I don’t think they are true. I just have not studied them.
Hello,
What is the significance of the Nessus-Dejanira midpoint in synastry?
I am guessing it might be the point where our Abuser-Victim energies are neutralised?
A couple with INCREDIBLY GREAT soulmate synastry have their Nessus-Dejanira midpoints conjunct each other by 3 degrees. And these points are also conjunct his DC on one end and her AC on the other end. So it is a stellium of his DC, His ND mp, Her ND mp, Her AC, spanning between 21 aries and 29 aries.
I have not worked with any midpoints. Your post is very interesting. Does the midpoint neutralize?
Hello
Our synastry….his Nessus opposition my Neptune…excatly.. opposition are also taken into consideration, are they important too?
Yes, close oppositions though, not more than 2 degrees. This may be a generational aspect, too, so not as important. The personal parts of the chart are more important like the angles( ASC, DSC etc) and the personal planets–Sun, moon, Merc, venus, and mars.
my dejanira is almost exactly conjunct his north node..why?why?
He’s weird and moody, and sometimes he downright scares me, cause he seems cold and tough, but other times he can be so sweet and vulnerable, and kind, I melt..confused, completely.
we do have other good aspects, too, though..his juno is opposite my sun and conjunct my asc, my juno is loosely conjunct his venus, his venus conjunct my south node and opposite my vertex, my moon-mars-jupiter loosely conjunct his south node, his moon trine my moon, ascendant, sextile my sun, my moon-mars-jupiter trine his sun, his pluto loosely trine my venus, tightly trine my sun, and my favourite, his eros conjunct my psyche, which might explain the longingad loving vibes..I am pretty sure he feels something for me, too, but he’s weird and secretive..is there no hope for us to form a nice relationship?
Hi Sandy
To me, Deja conj the NN is not good because you bring being a victim to him. I tell it as I see it and that is how I see it, my Friend xx
Hi Amelia,
Great blog you got here! I have been in a r/s for about a year now. At the start everything was sweet and he seems almost too good to be true, however, he started complaining so much more as time wears on. I like to ask how does a double whammy Dejaniera conj. ASC plays out? Thanks 🙂
Welcome Rania and thank you for your kind words! I never have seen this in all the charts I have done. I would guess that you each bring the vulnerable wounded side to each other. I am not sure if you would each hurt each other or understand each other. What do you think?
Ops I meant conj. DSC, not ASC. Im still a novice in astrology and still learning on the angles of chart. Hope to hear frm you!
OK You hit each others DSC with this. You may want to mother a wounded bird but you both do, so I am not sure how this would work out. You tell me! xx